Comments on: The Cultivation of Wisdom and Well-Being, Installment 1: Mindfulness and Meta-Cognition http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/ For the empowerment of people and reason Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:32:02 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: L. Ron Brown http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-4880 L. Ron Brown Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:06:13 +0000 http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-4880 Delany: Many thanks. I hope to work in mental health and education eventually, with a particular emphasis on application of mindfulness and CBT-based approaches to wellness and the promotion of growth. Delany:

Many thanks. I hope to work in mental health and education eventually, with a particular emphasis on application of mindfulness and CBT-based approaches to wellness and the promotion of growth.

]]> By: Delany Dean http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-4878 Delany Dean Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:46:51 +0000 http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-4878 Good job, L. Ron, with your post on wisdom and mindfulness! I just ran across your blog today. I am a psychologist who teaches and uses mindfulness-based interventions in a variety of contexts. I hope you will write more about mindfulness and Buddhist thought on this blog! And I enthusiastically second your recommendation of Pema Chodron's book, "Places That Scare You"; another wonderful one is "When Things Fall Apart." Good job, L. Ron, with your post on wisdom and mindfulness! I just ran across your blog today. I am a psychologist who teaches and uses mindfulness-based interventions in a variety of contexts. I hope you will write more about mindfulness and Buddhist thought on this blog!

And I enthusiastically second your recommendation of Pema Chodron’s book, “Places That Scare You”; another wonderful one is “When Things Fall Apart.”

]]> By: Meditation, Yoga & Spiritual Growth Carnival- Edition #13 http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-1769 Meditation, Yoga & Spiritual Growth Carnival- Edition #13 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 03:16:24 +0000 http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-1769 [...] Brown presents The Cultivation of Wisdom and Well-Being, Installment 1: Mindfulness and Meta-Cognition « The Frame... posted at The Frame [...] [...] Brown presents The Cultivation of Wisdom and Well-Being, Installment 1: Mindfulness and Meta-Cognition « The Frame… posted at The Frame [...]

]]> By: Rachel http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-1406 Rachel Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:31:12 +0000 http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-1406 Thank you for this, Ron! I think as skeptics, we need to be careful not to dismiss everything about religions. For example, tools, such as mindfulness meditation, can be very useful even outside of the context of religion, in the case Buddhism. I think MBCT is an attempt to secularize mindfulness meditation, which I think is a step in the right direction. I have found, however, that it is very difficult to practice meditation outside of the Buddhist context - at least if you want to practice with others, the options seem to be limited to Buddhist groups. And then - at least in my experience - you get the whole Buddhist religion with it. After all, mindfulness meditation was originated as a way to overcome the cycle of rebirth and reach nirvana. So, as skeptics and meditators, I think we need to put a claim on this tool without the package (as I like to put it "no hungry ghosts required"). Just because we find mindfulness meditation useful does not mean that we have to believe the Buddha really existed or that the Four Noble Truths are really true (I have a post on my blog about the Second Noble Truth, where I attempt to show that it missed a few causes of suffering). The other task in the wisdom area for us skeptics is, I believe, for us to offer new answers to the meaning question. I argue in one of <a href="http://www.rabe.org/what-is-religion/" rel="nofollow">my posts</a> that religion (and spirituality) are attempts to answer the question of the meaning of life. However, these answers are - as we know - steeped in myths and require faith in fairy tales. I would love it if we could dialog about that a bit... I think that you've started something really important here: we have to get out of the religion bashing and start offering attractive alternatives (me included ;-) - as you allude, it's easier to bash...) Thank you for this, Ron! I think as skeptics, we need to be careful not to dismiss everything about religions. For example, tools, such as mindfulness meditation, can be very useful even outside of the context of religion, in the case Buddhism. I think MBCT is an attempt to secularize mindfulness meditation, which I think is a step in the right direction. I have found, however, that it is very difficult to practice meditation outside of the Buddhist context – at least if you want to practice with others, the options seem to be limited to Buddhist groups. And then – at least in my experience – you get the whole Buddhist religion with it. After all, mindfulness meditation was originated as a way to overcome the cycle of rebirth and reach nirvana.

So, as skeptics and meditators, I think we need to put a claim on this tool without the package (as I like to put it “no hungry ghosts required”). Just because we find mindfulness meditation useful does not mean that we have to believe the Buddha really existed or that the Four Noble Truths are really true (I have a post on my blog about the Second Noble Truth, where I attempt to show that it missed a few causes of suffering).

The other task in the wisdom area for us skeptics is, I believe, for us to offer new answers to the meaning question. I argue in one of my posts that religion (and spirituality) are attempts to answer the question of the meaning of life. However, these answers are – as we know – steeped in myths and require faith in fairy tales. I would love it if we could dialog about that a bit… I think that you’ve started something really important here: we have to get out of the religion bashing and start offering attractive alternatives (me included ;-) – as you allude, it’s easier to bash…)

]]> By: Mindfulness « Better Living Blog http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-947 Mindfulness « Better Living Blog Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:31:02 +0000 http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-947 [...] recently found a couple of good discussions of mindfulness including a general mindfulness discussion and a skeptic’s approach  in The Frame Problem blog.  Posted by nunya Filed in [...] [...] recently found a couple of good discussions of mindfulness including a general mindfulness discussion and a skeptic’s approach  in The Frame Problem blog.  Posted by nunya Filed in [...]

]]> By: ronbrown http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-327 ronbrown Mon, 07 Jan 2008 00:42:26 +0000 http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-327 Good for you! Good for you!

]]> By: quotesqueen http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-323 quotesqueen Sun, 06 Jan 2008 22:38:18 +0000 http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-323 Thanks, Ron. I do KNOW a lot of that stuff, but you know, knowing and doing/feeling/incorporating into one's life are different things! I've read some things by Chodron, and I do like her. I also subscribe to Shambhala Sun, to which she contributes periodically. It's a great magazine, btw. Also, my counselor told me about the HALT acronym that's often used for people with addictions: Hungry, Angry, Lonely, or Tired. So I find myself "checking in" for one of those states when I am about to do something that's not in my best interest! I will keep "starting over" with meditation, because I know it is important for me. Thanks, Ron. I do KNOW a lot of that stuff, but you know, knowing and doing/feeling/incorporating into one’s life are different things! I’ve read some things by Chodron, and I do like her. I also subscribe to Shambhala Sun, to which she contributes periodically. It’s a great magazine, btw. Also, my counselor told me about the HALT acronym that’s often used for people with addictions: Hungry, Angry, Lonely, or Tired. So I find myself “checking in” for one of those states when I am about to do something that’s not in my best interest! I will keep “starting over” with meditation, because I know it is important for me.

]]> By: ronbrown http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-311 ronbrown Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:55:24 +0000 http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-311 Quotesqueen: Thank you for commenting on the article. The area of wisdom is the most strenuous to write about and seems to get less attention than articles in other areas on the site, and that is something that I really would like to change as there is no topic on this blog that is more important than this, I believe. I'd love it if you commented on the wisdom-related articles often to help generate interest in it! As for the issue of patience in meditation, I read something recently that may be of help to you. The book is called "The places that scare you", by American Buddhist nun Pema Chodron. I've only read the first 25% of it, but I recommend it. Regarding patience in meditation--or another other type of distraction or hinderance, such as tiredness, soreness, etc.--it gave a very helpful message: just be mindful of the mental state. When you're impatient or bored for instance, perhaps feeling in need of some sort of mental stimulation, let the thoughts that are occurring with this mental state go (as is customary in meditation, acknowledge the thoughts as thoughts and go back to the breath), but pay attention to the phenomenological state of boredom. Be mindful of boredom. Or tiredness. Or impatience. Or stress. Or sadness. Or whatever. This is said to serve a few functions. For one, it helps you to become more in touch with your self and the aspects of your experience that you are uncomfortable with (or, places that scare you). Rather than repressing them you are acknowledging them and facing them, which is believed to help one triumph over them rather than fear and avoid them. Another thing is that it helps you appreciate that moods are moods, mental states are mental states, they just happen but they can be worked with and used as an opportunity to develop self-mastery. Each one of them is an opportunity for growth and empowerment. Just accept that they are there and be with them rather than running away. If you run away, they are controlling you. By accepting them as normal cognitive events but also staying with them, you can gain mastery over them and over your life more generally. More pertinent to your concerns over impatience, I have found that simply paying attention to the very feelings of boredom, tiredness and the like has helped me to stay in meditation for notably longer than I did before. Rather than trying to fight off or ignore boredom and just force myself through, I pay attention to it and just go with it and I can comfortably stay in meditation for notably longer. Give it a try! Quotesqueen:

Thank you for commenting on the article. The area of wisdom is the most strenuous to write about and seems to get less attention than articles in other areas on the site, and that is something that I really would like to change as there is no topic on this blog that is more important than this, I believe. I’d love it if you commented on the wisdom-related articles often to help generate interest in it!

As for the issue of patience in meditation, I read something recently that may be of help to you. The book is called “The places that scare you”, by American Buddhist nun Pema Chodron. I’ve only read the first 25% of it, but I recommend it. Regarding patience in meditation–or another other type of distraction or hinderance, such as tiredness, soreness, etc.–it gave a very helpful message: just be mindful of the mental state. When you’re impatient or bored for instance, perhaps feeling in need of some sort of mental stimulation, let the thoughts that are occurring with this mental state go (as is customary in meditation, acknowledge the thoughts as thoughts and go back to the breath), but pay attention to the phenomenological state of boredom. Be mindful of boredom. Or tiredness. Or impatience. Or stress. Or sadness. Or whatever.

This is said to serve a few functions. For one, it helps you to become more in touch with your self and the aspects of your experience that you are uncomfortable with (or, places that scare you). Rather than repressing them you are acknowledging them and facing them, which is believed to help one triumph over them rather than fear and avoid them. Another thing is that it helps you appreciate that moods are moods, mental states are mental states, they just happen but they can be worked with and used as an opportunity to develop self-mastery. Each one of them is an opportunity for growth and empowerment. Just accept that they are there and be with them rather than running away. If you run away, they are controlling you. By accepting them as normal cognitive events but also staying with them, you can gain mastery over them and over your life more generally.

More pertinent to your concerns over impatience, I have found that simply paying attention to the very feelings of boredom, tiredness and the like has helped me to stay in meditation for notably longer than I did before. Rather than trying to fight off or ignore boredom and just force myself through, I pay attention to it and just go with it and I can comfortably stay in meditation for notably longer.

Give it a try!

]]> By: quotesqueen http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-308 quotesqueen Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:07:48 +0000 http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-cultivation-of-wisdom-and-well-being-installment-1-mindfulness-and-meta-cognition/#comment-308 Thanks for this! I am not quite patient enough yet for a sitting meditation practice, although I have done it enough to know that it has amazing results. But I do find that mindfulness in activity during the day also becomes a habit that strengthens with practice. Just pausing before eating a meal, before responding to someone, or between activities can be profoundly transformative! Noticing the breath at any time of day is calming, centering, and restorative. Thanks for this! I am not quite patient enough yet for a sitting meditation practice, although I have done it enough to know that it has amazing results. But I do find that mindfulness in activity during the day also becomes a habit that strengthens with practice. Just pausing before eating a meal, before responding to someone, or between activities can be profoundly transformative! Noticing the breath at any time of day is calming, centering, and restorative.

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